Fallout 3 The Pitt Ending

At that place'south this sense I get from the narrative, and even the way I hear people talk about it that I was supposed to experience guilty or something for taking the baby away and and then killing her mother Sandra (Ashurs wife)? Considering I shotgunned her in the tummy right before I left and felt quite good about it.
I've oftentimes heard people make her out to exist some innocent mother and how terrible it is taking abroad her kid from her. Still she substantially supported slavery on a mass level and her husband the unabridged time knowing everything that was going on, simply difference was she wasn't out doing it herself similar her husband and the other Pitt raiders.

I didn't like her at all, let lonely to feel any ounce of sympathy or anything like that.
Ashur doesn't like using slaves, and also doesn't like the discussion "slave". He is only using them considering it is the but manner to build a future for The Pitt.
He uses slaves considering no i else would want to work in The Pitt because of all the radiation sickness. His plan is to build a industrial community that will benefit mankind for the future.
He says that one time the cure is found (using his daughter Marie to practice it), he won't need to force people to work anymore and volition costless all the slaves. Later on that he will continue using the industrial complex in The Pitt to pave the route for the benefit of mankind. A customs that volition be fair for anybody, leader and workers (where everyone will be prosperous and work on their own gratuitous will). It will be a prosperous place that can make employ of the pre-war machinery to assist mankind's hereafter.

Basically, Ashur's doing a bad thing at present to atomic number 82 to a good affair for everyone. Exactly like "the end justifies the means". He is not proud of it, he doesn't fifty-fifty like information technology, merely he is doing it to make the wasteland a improve identify for everyone.

Now Wernher says he wants to save the slaves, but what he does and says shows that he actually just want to sit in Ashur's throne. He doesn't heed killing an innocent baby if that makes that ascension to power faster. After we depose Ashur and Wernher takes control, everyone is still a slave and working exactly the aforementioned as when they were under Ashur's dominion. No one is free, no one leaves The Pitt, nothing changes.

Basically, Wernher's just a power hungry bounder that makes a defection just so he tin can control The Pitt.

If you should experience bad for taking one side or another is all upwards to you though.
I never idea most it, merely I gauge that ways I never particularly cared about executing slavers.Based on what?
Risewild is a office of the TTW team. Considering it's Fallout 3 that's getting incorporated into New Vegas, I would presume that it's Fallout iii + the DLCs that'due south getting played to hell and back to ensure its stability and bug-free while being played using New Vegas's improve engine. Based on reading Risewild'southward post in the by, I tin can agree to him remembering literally everything most Fallout 3, New Vegas, and its DLCs similar the back of his hand.
Or maybe it's just Bethesda beingness Bethesda, who disregarded to implement proper reactivity for players who choose certain options.
Based on beating The Pitt supporting Wernher. When you go back to the Pitt, the slaves are however in the same identify, doing the same matter. Nonetheless live in the aforementioned area (instead of moving to Uptown where Ashur'due south "guards" used to alive), Midea's is experimenting on Marie to find the cure in her tiny ruined "firm" instead of doing it in the much nicer lab in Haven (Ashur's Home).
Also Midea says some things that don't strike me as Wernher freeing people or letting them get:
Wernher takes the "ruler" position right abroad, and things just get worst for the "workers".
EDIT: I just remembered that fifty-fifty Wernher's ain words fabricated me think he was a power hungry bastard that doesn't care for the slaves or the Pitt. And so I went to check it out:
Nevertheless phone call them slaves and plans on having Marie being raised as a slave likewise .
Ashur is kind of a visionary madman who has let the human being price of his deportment overwhelm his morality. He's single-handedly supporting all of Paradise Falls' business concern with his deportment and the idea of rebuilding Pittsburgh is of extreme questionableness. Even so, he is motivated past a desire to save humanity.
Wernher is evil but doesn't care as long as he gets his revenge. He'll as well follow you if you say you lot're in accuse.

The choice is between someone who is a Well-Intentioned Extremist with corking goals only evil methods versus someone who is evil yet less dangerous.

Edit:

My opinion of the catastrophe is the fact that whatever happens, the situation in the Pit dramatically improves as the inoculation which makes sure you take twenty% radiation resistance is going to mean the people are no longer suffering the worst of the conditions either manner. Killing Ashur and his Raiders volition benefit the identify in some ways only I await most of the population will stay anyhow considering getting back to the Capital Wasteland isn't an easy journeying anyway.

Getting rid of his Raiders and Slaver colleagues volition do good the state of affairs if y'all side with Ashur besides.
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Risewild might need to confirm this since information technology's been a while, but from what I remember Ashur's wife suffers heavily from peripheral graphic symbol syndrome. Since she doesn't get a whole lot of time in the narrative, it's but natural for the role player not to give a fuck if she lives or dies. She's substantially a plot/gameplay object.
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You literally take 3 infinitesimal conversation with her and Ashur and you go a choice to aid Werhner or Ashur. You can steal some logs from her and Ashur'south safe that give her more screentime than that.
Other than that she has radiant quest if you helped Ashur (collecting teddy bears if I remember correctly).
I think that's part of the twist that Ashur has this loving wife and scientist spouse who comes out of nowhere. Just farther insight that Ashur isn't your typical Raider.
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The LW ready the trogs loose on uptown. I causeless it was non a viable place to live anymore. Someone needs to be in charge. And given that she says 'I don't know how Ashur did it' indicates that people were trying to tear each other autonomously earlier, then that doesn't point a worsening state of affairs. What else would he telephone call them? The onetime slaves, the people, whatever people from Pittsburg are called or something along those lines? I guess that's worrying, merely he strikes me more than every bit laziness on their devs part than equally a hint of what's 'really happening'. When you lot gratuitous slaves in game they don't go a new championship/generic name in whatever other state of affairs and then it seems fairly consistent with that.
The next cake o' quotes start off with two similarly ambiguous statements equally, unless I'yard mistaken, those are said afterwards you tell him that you're betraying him to piece of work for Ashur. Seems similar the sort of thing someone would say in that situation. The rest signal that he's power hungry and probably corrupt, but relative to the Fallout globe that doesn't hateful a whole lot. It doesn't mean that he's imposing slavery.

Corporal penalisation on the other hand is clearly indicated. I recall surviving in the Pitt is difficult so it'southward not like anyone who remains is going to take any like shooting fish in a barrel time of things, and people are trying to kill each other. That they'd have to piece of work their asses off nether horrible conditions to survive simply seems logical. So there are less terrible conclusions than 'everything is the same or worse' which are plausible. This is not to say that you're interpretation is wrong, information technology's just that there'south but so much that we tin definitively draw from what we see.
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A reminder again that while the game doesn't do much with it, you can say you're the Lord of the Pitt.
And Wernher goes along with information technology.
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Free the slaves or Non free them? I ever choose the offset option.
Ashur was 1 of the best parts of Fallout 3.
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As a Pennsylvania resident, I can't tell you how relieved I am the merely part of the series that takes identify hither actually does the country justice. People complain that the Pitt was short (and it was), only ultimately I retrieve that helped the DLC retain some respect in the long run. What did exist was quality compared to the residuum of Fallout 3. Genuinely creative explorations of mail-government politics, ambiguous moral decisions, multiple endings; it has a lot going for information technology.
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If yous're taking over the Pitt, you lot will not want a identify full of trogs right around the corner. Not to mention that Oasis has much better equipped facilities and probably inquiry notes that could meliorate the speed of finding the cure.
Also one wouldn't even need to kill the trogs. All i needs to practise is repeat the Lone Wanderer's steps that pb to the trogs invading and turn the overflowing lights on again (which scares the trogs away, back to their "territory"). The Lone Wanderer did it once (to plough the lights off), it can do it again (probably even easier, since most or all trogs in the path to the concluding are at present dead).
No, it indicates that Ashur managed to not take people tear each other apart. Simply Midea doesn't know how he did it. Also, Ashur punished harshly whatsoever of guards that mistreated slaves. While in Wernher's case, people are all in a salvage state, trying to kill each other, no law or order.
Which means that Wernher sucks at being in accuse or it makes it worst for people living at that place.
Erm... Ashur calls them workers, and even lectures his ain right hand man when he calls them slaves. Names thing and simply by this little example, we can see that Ashur cares more for the workers than Wernher does.
The devs were lazy, simply conspicuously made sure that the role player knows that Ashur calls them workers and doesn't like when their own men call them slaves (with an unabridged unskippable and unmissable conversation that you take to watch earlier continuing the story), just then just make Wernher nevertheless call them slaves later on they are "free"? I doubt that.
No, those quotes is if you endeavor to convince Wernher to leave without a fight.
I besides don't agree that would be the sort of thing someone would say in that situation, unless they are kittenish assholes that got aroused that their dreams of ability got shattered. What a person that cares for The Pitt and/or the slaves would say would probably exist something like "Fine, you win. Just you will have to alive with the suffering of The Pitt people's in your conscience." or "Promise you know you're condemning The Pitt's people to a lifetime of slavery and suffering. I am out of hither." or anything like that.
Not to mention Wernher's besides lies in some conversations. He says that if Ashur gets the cure, no one will be able to gratuitous the slaves anymore, Ashur and his guards will accept all the power. Just Ashur makes information technology quite articulate that he volition complimentary the slaves once he gets the cure. It'southward no undercover and Ashur's quite adamant to tell you and anyone that wants listen, his great plans for the time to come of The Pitt.
Some of my quotes were more aimed at the "author notes" that came with the quote. The "author notes" are notes that the writer places on the script to aid the voice actors to know how to speak/say/intone certain parts of the script. Information technology is the perfect way of knowing what the writer's want to demonstrate in the dialogue and many times shines a light on the personality of the character.
Those notes show without a doubt that the writer wanted Wernher to be a power hungry, lying, bloodthirsty, deceiving bastard that doesn't care most anything besides being in control and that he even plans to betray the Lone Wanderer (but like he tried to do with Ashur and got demoted from right hand man to a slave himself).

Here, I will quote a few more and bold the "author notes" used to convey Wernher'southward personality:
We have to be careful nigh what nosotros tin and can't dominion out, i.e making assumptions.
Nosotros don't know the total trog population. We know they eat humans, and not other trogs. Naturally that would mean that trogs will keep coming toward homo habitats. Whatsoever that the LW killed are probable replaced now that they have free reign of the area. The numbers the LW encountered were those in that location when the slavers were keeping them at bay (more than nosotros always saw). We also don't know if more would merely continue coming, increasing their density in the area. Presumably, places actively cleared have less than those next to them, which accept less than those next to them.

Nosotros can speculate that information technology's possible to clear them out, but for all nosotros know the lights, grid, etc needed regular repairs to piece of work. For all we know the fighting damaged things. If the principle is the same every bit with wildlife in the existent world, then it's effect is entirely moot once they're in the expanse that you desire to keep them out of. It's more of a barrier than an actual repellent. It spooks, non hurts.
Less than you recall. Read carefully please. It doesn't signal that either is managing to stop all violence. They might be, they might not be. It only indicates that both had/accept something to stop from happening. Their success level is not really indicated. The rest is speculation without support. Non much to say near that.Him calling them workers is propaganda. Information technology'southward coded language. Labels don't define people. Werhner also says they're freed. It'south contradictory, but the fact that freed slave is an oxymoron doesn't finish people from using information technology. And Werhner may just be acknowledging that they have been slaves. Information technology's not similar more than v minutes have passed since they were 'freed' before he says it, or that anyone's going to jump in and say 'well actually we're gratuitous people because we're not enslaved anymore.'It'southward the aforementioned thing. You run across him in his hideaway and say that you're side with Ashur IIRC. That would be you betraying him, whether you ask him to leave nicely or non.
"Oh, I see how information technology is. You signed on with Ashur, and at present you're going to stand by your man. Maybe trying to catch his eye and be his queen? Well, expert luck with that, starfucker. I'm sure the ii of you will kill each other eventually, fifty-fifty without my help. You lot, him, and this whole town can burn for all I intendance. I'one thousand gone."

Sounds like a bitter, jaded human being speaking in anger because he was just betrayed.
People say things they don't mean in anger. I didn't call back I needed to signal that out.I'1000 pitiful, I honestly tin can't assist but laugh hither. It's fine if you want to believe him, but his propaganda is not prophesy. Fifty-fifty if he recorded saying as much to his daughter in those holo-whatevers that would only mean that he wanted her to believe it too. That isn't to say he couldn't be sincere, but Fallout generally doesn't reward innocence.I said it earlier, and I'll say it once again. he's definitely a power hungry asshole. This doesn't indicate that the slaves aren't complimentary, or that he never intended to free them. He definitely doesn't give two shits about that baby. Their living conditions certainly didn't change dramatically overnight, though that was never in the cards.
On some other note "Suggesting that he was going to betray the player" doesn't hateful that he was planning to. Writers sometimes desire their audience to consider things that aren't actually true. Also something I never expected to explicate, but I guess that'south a writer's affliction.
Trogs don't reproduce, they are created past the radiations sickness. About (if non all) of the trogs got decimated when the BoS made what is known as "the Scourge", that happened 22 years before the Lonely Wanderer reaches the Pitt. Since it is stated ingame that information technology takes years for a person to become a trog and that most people dice instead of becoming trogs (75%-80% of adult people infected past TDC die instead of turning into trogs and merely adults go trogs). We tin can safely assume that the trog population is not that high. Specially since guards and steelyard "workers" are unsaid to kill some from fourth dimension to fourth dimension.
What I merely wrote is assumptions substanciated past what information the game provide us. But we tin can besides see those results ingame.
I just played The Pitt picking Werhner side to refresh my memory and to make sure I don't spread misinformation. We can go dorsum to the area where the light concluding is, I only encountered 4 trogs this time, while the showtime time I encountered waves of them. Those iv were probably some I didn't kill the outset time, since i rushed to the last. Nosotros can go back to the terminal without any issues.
Merely we practise know the land of things in Uptown. The game doesn't block access to information technology at all after y'all trounce the DLC.
I but did and so and in that location was 5 or six trogs in that location. Nothing I couldn't bargain with by myself. The lights and fences testify no sign of damage at all, null in the infrastructure changes. Non only that, but Haven still has it's lights on, and no trogs were near it:

This enforces what I said, there is nothing preventing us from only go at that place and wipe the trogs out and lock the fence gate that the trogs showtime come from. Then we just stroll to the terminal and plough the lights on. If the lights or fences needed repair for whatever reason, we have an entire work forcefulness to fix those things for us. Nothing would be stopping it.
It says "I don't know how Ashur'due south managed to finish people from wanting to kill each other". If people don't want to kill each other, then they wouldn't be killing each other... I don't meet how y'all tin can think that under Ashur was every bit bad as under Werhner when those words leave nix to imagination...
Ashur = People don't want to kill each other = Order.
Werhner = People desire to kill each other = Chaos.
And I can't help laugh too. Information technology is not propaganda. Ashur does want to free the slave and help The Pitt become a free citizenship identify. If you don't believe his ain words when he explains in great item his plans, and you don't believe what he says in his diary for his daughter. Then read the author'south notes at the cease of this post.
But how would y'all not believe his words for his girl but you believe a untrustworthy bounder like Werhner?
To refresh the memory nigh what he say to his girl in those diaries you mentioned:

He says he saw the Pitt with it's working steel mill the perfect opportunity to rebuilt civilization in a "world of leftovers" is not proud of using slaves, how forced labor is only a temporary mensurate and how her (Marie) will be considered a hero past the fourth dimension she is x years one-time, considering she would take been the cause for the cure that volition help the entire metropolis? Why would he lie to his own daughter in his ain diary that is locked in a safe and that is the only container in the entire room that is considered "owned", you lot tin freely take anything else from that room, including the stuff from a dresser and a desk.

If yous still tin can't see how Ashur is really honest about his plans, and then the head-cannon is too potent and I can't sway you lot with any of this information then effort the author's notes at the end of this mail.
There is a poor guy that is rolling on the floor proverb how he is very sick, and the game gives an option to effort to heal him (if we have enough medicine skill, which I didn't in this graphic symbol) or the pick to leave him be or to end his misery. I came back a couple days after "liberating" The Pitt and he is still there suffering. All the "workers" still mutter about how much they are forced to work, how they just want to rest, how they can't talk and have to work, etc.
Not only that, but fifty-fifty Milly, a slave that was friendly towards me (considering I institute out what had happened to Wild Bill) earlier I beat the DLC, at present just tells me aggressively to "Get Away!" instead of being friendly once more.
This is all in the game and showing it right in our face, the slaves are forced to piece of work the same under Ashur or Werhner, slaves that were friendly to y'all are ambitious now, no slave thanks you or is happy in any mode, no slave mentions being complimentary or working on their own costless will, etc. The slave that is sick in the center of the ground is however rolling on the footing suffering... Zero changes.
Reaching at straws now? How almost how the writer notes in this case "Now that Ashur's gone, at that place's gonna be some changes around hither, believe me. {Pleased with himself, a picayune ominous}"?
In that location is nothing to exist interpreted by the discussion ominous, it means "with evil intent". Or the so many notes of "Untrustworthy" or how he lies well-nigh Ashur's plans (which the game shows are true).
We already have a await on Werhner's notes that the writer provided. So why not take a wait at Ashur'south writer's notes also:
If you all the same want me to believe that the writer wanted to make Werhner the one to free the slaves and Ashur a liar that just desire to proceed using slaves to work on his city... Well, I can't imagine how you would still retrieve that.

Last edited: Jul 14, 2018

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